There is a growing debate about the appropriateness of performing grand plies early in the barre. Some highly regarded dance teachers and choreographers are even questioning whether grand plies in 1st, 4th, and/or 5th should be done at all.
I have been doing extensive research on this subject, on the internet. While I have yet to find definitive biomechanical findings, or a long term research study that clearly delineates a cost vs. benefit relationship regarding grand plies, I do have concerns, and have determined to be highly judicious in my use of grand plies in 1st, 3rd, and 5th in the weekly classes I teach. I do think that dance training has lagged behind in incorporating and applying the advances in exercise science that have directly
and positively impacted training in other athletic disciplines and fitness training for the general healthy adult population.
I'm very interested in your thoughts:
Where should grand plies occur in the barre, and which should be given?
Are there other, safer exercises that can accomplish some of the same benefits attributed to grand plies, and in fact are any of the benefits attributed to grand plies really measurable, or proven- in other words, will dancers experience significant detriments to strength, flexibility or technique if they do not perform grand plies in 1st, 3rd, and 5th?
If the most compelling argument for retaining grand plies in some positions is "tradition," is it really a valid argument at all?
(Please note that I have no issues with demi-plies in dance training, as there is a clear and direct correlation between demi-plies in all positions and the jumps, turns, and linking steps which comprise the center work, enchainements, and choreography. My concerns are strictly with grand plies
I have been doing extensive research on this subject, on the internet. While I have yet to find definitive biomechanical findings, or a long term research study that clearly delineates a cost vs. benefit relationship regarding grand plies, I do have concerns, and have determined to be highly judicious in my use of grand plies in 1st, 3rd, and 5th in the weekly classes I teach. I do think that dance training has lagged behind in incorporating and applying the advances in exercise science that have directly
and positively impacted training in other athletic disciplines and fitness training for the general healthy adult population.
I'm very interested in your thoughts:
Where should grand plies occur in the barre, and which should be given?
Are there other, safer exercises that can accomplish some of the same benefits attributed to grand plies, and in fact are any of the benefits attributed to grand plies really measurable, or proven- in other words, will dancers experience significant detriments to strength, flexibility or technique if they do not perform grand plies in 1st, 3rd, and 5th?
If the most compelling argument for retaining grand plies in some positions is "tradition," is it really a valid argument at all?
(Please note that I have no issues with demi-plies in dance training, as there is a clear and direct correlation between demi-plies in all positions and the jumps, turns, and linking steps which comprise the center work, enchainements, and choreography. My concerns are strictly with grand plies
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Re: Grand plies in the 21st century
Tue, October 17, 2006 - 12:52 PMIn no expert, but my feeling is that grand plies have been done at the beginning of traditional classes for 'centuries,' and there is no really good reason to abandon them. (We seem to be living in an age when just about anything can be found to have detrimental effects, and I've decided to use common sense... and ignore the nay-sayers.) -
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Re: Grand plies in the 21st century
Tue, October 17, 2006 - 7:55 PMAgain, though, if the only reason we can come up with for keeping grand plies in some positions, or keeping them at the beginning of class is "tradition," is that a valid reason? Football coaches for decades used to deny water to the players during long periods of practice. Wrestlers and boxers used to try to make weight by doing calisthenics in super heated rooms while wearing rubber suits. Bodybuilders used to have the motto, "no pain, no gain." These were all "traditions."
I think the support for at the very least moving grand plies in 1st, 4th, and 5th to a time later in the barre is compelling. In fact, I taught advanced class tonight and we never got around to doing grand plies in these positions at all. There was no noticeable difference in the dancers' performance.
And I would argue that common sense is to take modern scientific findings into account, and discarding outmoded practices, if there is any question at all as to whether they can be done by the majority of participants, safely and effectively, with minimal risk of injury. To ingnore new information, and cling to exercises that were developed when medical science still consisted of bleedings and bodily humors, is not common sense, but nonsense.
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Re: Grand plies in the 21st century
Wed, October 18, 2006 - 8:30 PMI've always believed that grande plies target very different muscles in the legs and hips than demi plies. I feel they're necessary for that reason alone. With grande plies, the legs get more warmed up for the rest of the barre work and, when done correctly, they increase turnout and strength in the hips and lengthen the achilles tendon. For me those are plenty of important reasons to keep them, and I don't see a good enough argument for having them later on, either, since they're very good at warming up the entire leg. -
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Re: Grand plies in the 21st century
Thu, October 19, 2006 - 1:52 PMGrand plies do target different muscle groups than demi plies, that is true. That those muscles also need to be warmed up is also true. However, once one releases the heels tin 1st, 4th, or 5th, the stretch on the Achilles tendon is actually decreased considerably, as once the heels have left the floor the kinetic chain along the back of the leg becomes a more open rather than a closed chain- the gastrocnemius shortens rather than lengthens further when the heels are released. It has also been shown that grand plies in crossed positions (4th and 5th, probably 4th in particular) also place external rotational force on the knee joint that may be medically considered unacceptably high in all but the most perfectly turned out and perfectly aligned dancers.
My contention is that there are other exercises that do a better job of warming up the thighs, hips, and legs than grand plies in these positions, without the association external rotative force on the knee joint, and the high stress this places on the ACL and MCL. I do include grand plies in 4th in my floor barre, as well as other exercises and stretches which I believe allow the students to safely and gently work toward their maximum (natural) turnout. Of course, as we now know, everyone has a different degree of natural turnout, and any attempt to exceed one's natural turnout will eventually damage the knees and or hips. Many young dancers have had their knees and hips ruined by destructive practices intended to "increase their turnout."
I have yet to find a study that shows, scientifically, that the benefits of doing grand plies in these positions outweighs the risks- if anyone knows of one, I would truly like to read it. Conversely, there are several studies I have found or am tracking down that suggest the opposite, and in my next post I will provide those links..
if there is a question that the risks may outweigh the benefits, than I for one will abandon blind faith in ballet dogma, and seek further information.
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Re: Grand plies in the 21st century
Sun, October 22, 2006 - 8:37 PMi found this
www.artychaud.com/Tips4Hips.htm
Personally, grand plies, I feel are done incorrectly, with the dancer allowing his/her weight to drop inbetween the heels. For me, I find that warming up with certain yogic knee stretches that torque the ligaments at differnt angles allows for the loosness in a grande plie.
Although, recently, I have become more used to teaching breakdance lessons than learning ballet, I thiink having Grande plies performed in the middle of a ballet class allows for some relief in the lower back due to the up right aesthetic of the form. -
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Re: Grand plies in the 21st century
Mon, October 23, 2006 - 6:49 PMExcellent point about allowing the weight to drop between the heels. This creates sudden severe tension on the patellofemoral ligament, and along with forced turnout, is one of the most common errors I see at the barre.
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Re: Grand plies in the 21st century
Wed, November 22, 2006 - 10:55 PMHere's what I wonder: when else do we do grand plies except at the barre and maybe in a center adage?
I can't think of a single time I've ever performed a grand plie on stage (with the exception of a demonstration barre).
I personally believe that grand plies in second are an excellent way to warm up the legs. Done correctly. Grand plies in first are acceptable in my classes as well, as long as they're done with focus and intention. Fourth and fifth are different stories, I try to avoid them whenever possible because there's just too much than can go wrong. Sinking knees, collapsing hips, shortened achilles, releasing the core muscles, sinking chests... a recipe for disaster IMHO.
When I teach plies, I use a visualization principle I learned about in "Conditioning for Dance", which is hands down the most beneficial book I've ever come across for both my own dance practice and my teaching methods. They talk about visualizing the front of the pelvis closing and the back of the pelvis opening while descending in plie, and visualizing the reverse while coming up. Clearly seeing that in my mind's eye really brought to light how awkward grand plies tend to be in a lot of dancers, no matter how they may look when they do it.